Click here to donate to keep PhreeqcUsers open
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
Did you miss your
activation email
?
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
Forum Home
Login
Register
PhreeqcUsers Discussion Forum
»
Beginners
»
PHREEQC basics
»
Difference between entry as mg/kgw and mg/Kgs
« previous
next »
Print
Pages: [
1
]
Go Down
Author
Topic: Difference between entry as mg/kgw and mg/Kgs (Read 1223 times)
ronald.bean@suez.com
Contributor
Posts: 1
Difference between entry as mg/kgw and mg/Kgs
«
on:
March 10, 2020, 12:19:03 AM »
I am using phreeqcCom from an excel spreadsheet to calculate the pH and scaling indexes. when i calculate the solutions as mg/Kgw i get the correct solution. However when i enter the same solution expressed as mg/KgS or ppm there is a totally different solution that is created. To illustrate this point i did an extreme case of 15% solution of NaHCO3 with 85% water
This can be expressed as 150,000 mg/kgs (or ppm) of NaHCO3 or 176,470 mg/Kgw
DATABASE C:\Program Files (x86)\USGS\Phreeqc Interactive 3.6.2-15100\database\wateq4f.dat
SOLUTION 1
temp 25
pH 7
pe 4
redox pe
units mg/kgw
density 1
Alkalinity 176470.5882 as NaHCO3
C(4) 176470.5882 as NaHCO3
Mg 0
Na 176470.5882 as NaHCO3
S(6) 0
-water 1 # kg
END
SOLUTION 1
temp 25
pH 7
pe 4
redox pe
units mg/kgs
density 1
Alkalinity 150000 as NaHCO3
C(4) 150000 as NaHCO3
Mg 0
Na 150000 as NaHCO3
S(6) 0
-water 1 # kg
Why do i get two different solutions.
Input file: C:\Users\xl5552\Documents\__NewPhreeqcExcel\database\test15perNaHCO3rv1.pqi
Output file: C:\Users\xl5552\Documents\__NewPhreeqcExcel\database\test15perNaHCO3rv1.pqo
Database file: C:\Program Files (x86)\USGS\Phreeqc Interactive 3.6.2-15100\database\wateq4f.dat
------------------
Reading data base.
------------------
SOLUTION_MASTER_SPECIES
SOLUTION_SPECIES
PHASES
EXCHANGE_MASTER_SPECIES
EXCHANGE_SPECIES
SURFACE_MASTER_SPECIES
SURFACE_SPECIES
RATES
END
------------------------------------
Reading input data for simulation 1.
------------------------------------
DATABASE C:\Program Files (x86)\USGS\Phreeqc Interactive 3.6.2-15100\database\wateq4f.dat
SOLUTION 1
temp 25
pH 7
pe 4
redox pe
units mg/kgw
density 1
Alkalinity 176470.5882 as NaHCO3
C(4) 176470.5882 as NaHCO3
Mg 0
Na 176470.5882 as NaHCO3
S(6) 0
water 1 # kg
END
-------------------------------------------
Beginning of initial solution calculations.
-------------------------------------------
Initial solution 1.
pH will be adjusted to obtain desired alkalinity.
-----------------------------Solution composition------------------------------
Elements Molality Moles
Alkalinity 2.101e+00 2.101e+00
C(4) 2.101e+00 2.101e+00
Na 2.101e+00 2.101e+00
----------------------------Description of solution----------------------------
pH = 7.464 Adjust alkalinity
pe = 4.000
Activity of water = 0.937
Ionic strength (mol/kgw) = 1.607e+00
Mass of water (kg) = 1.000e+00
Total CO2 (mol/kg) = 2.101e+00
Temperature (°C) = 25.00
Electrical balance (eq) = -2.098e-14
Percent error, 100*(Cat-|An|)/(Cat+|An|) = -0.00
Iterations = 7
Total H = 1.130024e+02
Total O = 6.175275e+01
----------------------------Distribution of species----------------------------
Log Log Log mole V
Species Molality Activity Molality Activity Gamma cm³/mol
OH- 5.000e-07 2.728e-07 -6.301 -6.564 -0.263 (0)
H+ 4.705e-08 3.439e-08 -7.327 -7.464 -0.136 0.00
H2O 5.551e+01 9.371e-01 1.744 -0.028 0.000 18.07
C(4) 2.101e+00
HCO3- 1.535e+00 9.707e-01 0.186 -0.013 -0.199 (0)
NaHCO3 4.551e-01 6.588e-01 -0.342 -0.181 0.161 (0)
CO2 5.532e-02 8.009e-02 -1.257 -1.096 0.161 (0)
NaCO3- 4.704e-02 2.975e-02 -1.328 -1.527 -0.199 (0)
CO3-2 8.277e-03 1.324e-03 -2.082 -2.878 -0.796 (0)
H(0) 1.157e-26
H2 5.783e-27 8.372e-27 -26.238 -26.077 0.161 (0)
Na 2.101e+00
Na+ 1.599e+00 1.207e+00 0.204 0.082 -0.122 (0)
NaHCO3 4.551e-01 6.588e-01 -0.342 -0.181 0.161 (0)
NaCO3- 4.704e-02 2.975e-02 -1.328 -1.527 -0.199 (0)
O(0) 0.000e+00
O2 0.000e+00 0.000e+00 -40.443 -40.282 0.161 (0)
------------------------------Saturation indices-------------------------------
Phase SI** log IAP log K(298 K, 1 atm)
CO2(g) 0.37 -1.10 -1.47 CO2
H2(g) -22.93 -26.08 -3.15 H2
H2O(g) -1.54 -0.03 1.51 H2O
Nahcolite 0.62 0.07 -0.55 NaHCO3
Natron -1.69 -3.00 -1.31 Na2CO3:10H2O
O2(g) -37.39 -40.28 -2.89 O2
Thermonatrite -2.87 -2.74 0.13 Na2CO3:H2O
Trona -1.91 -2.70 -0.80 NaHCO3:Na2CO3:2H2O
**For a gas, SI = log10(fugacity). Fugacity = pressure * phi / 1 atm.
For ideal gases, phi = 1.
------------------
End of simulation.
------------------
------------------------------------
Reading input data for simulation 2.
------------------------------------
SOLUTION 1
temp 25
pH 7
pe 4
redox pe
units mg/kgs
density 1
Alkalinity 150000 as NaHCO3
C(4) 150000 as NaHCO3
Mg 0
Na 150000 as NaHCO3
S(6) 0
water 1 # kg
-------------------------------------------
Beginning of initial solution calculations.
-------------------------------------------
Initial solution 1.
pH will be adjusted to obtain desired alkalinity.
-----------------------------Solution composition------------------------------
Elements Molality Moles
Alkalinity 3.246e+00 3.246e+00
C(4) 3.246e+00 3.246e+00
Na 3.246e+00 3.246e+00
----------------------------Description of solution----------------------------
pH = 7.342 Adjust alkalinity
pe = 4.000
Activity of water = 0.906
Ionic strength (mol/kgw) = 2.321e+00
Mass of water (kg) = 1.000e+00
Total CO2 (mol/kg) = 3.246e+00
Temperature (°C) = 25.00
Electrical balance (eq) = -4.004e-10
Percent error, 100*(Cat-|An|)/(Cat+|An|) = -0.00
Iterations = 6
Total H = 1.140781e+02
Total O = 6.515510e+01
----------------------------Distribution of species----------------------------
Log Log Log mole V
Species Molality Activity Molality Activity Gamma cm³/mol
OH- 3.815e-07 1.991e-07 -6.419 -6.701 -0.282 (0)
H+ 6.302e-08 4.553e-08 -7.201 -7.342 -0.141 0.00
H2O 5.551e+01 9.055e-01 1.744 -0.043 0.000 18.07
C(4) 3.246e+00
HCO3- 2.211e+00 1.364e+00 0.345 0.135 -0.210 (0)
NaHCO3 8.545e-01 1.458e+00 -0.068 0.164 0.232 (0)
CO2 9.035e-02 1.542e-01 -1.044 -0.812 0.232 (0)
NaCO3- 8.064e-02 4.974e-02 -1.093 -1.303 -0.210 (0)
CO3-2 9.707e-03 1.405e-03 -2.013 -2.852 -0.839 (0)
H(0) 1.720e-26
H2 8.600e-27 1.467e-26 -26.066 -25.833 0.232 (0)
Na 3.246e+00
Na+ 2.311e+00 1.901e+00 0.364 0.279 -0.085 (0)
NaHCO3 8.545e-01 1.458e+00 -0.068 0.164 0.232 (0)
NaCO3- 8.064e-02 4.974e-02 -1.093 -1.303 -0.210 (0)
O(0) 0.000e+00
O2 0.000e+00 0.000e+00 -41.031 -40.799 0.232 (0)
------------------------------Saturation indices-------------------------------
Phase SI** log IAP log K(298 K, 1 atm)
CO2(g) 0.66 -0.81 -1.47 CO2
H2(g) -22.68 -25.83 -3.15 H2
H2O(g) -1.55 -0.04 1.51 H2O
Nahcolite 0.96 0.41 -0.55 NaHCO3
Natron -1.41 -2.73 -1.31 Na2CO3:10H2O
O2(g) -37.91 -40.80 -2.89 O2
Thermonatrite -2.46 -2.34 0.13 Na2CO3:H2O
Trona -1.17 -1.97 -0.80 NaHCO3:Na2CO3:2H2O
**For a gas, SI = log10(fugacity). Fugacity = pressure * phi / 1 atm.
For ideal gases, phi = 1.
------------------
End of simulation.
------------------
------------------------------------
Reading input data for simulation 3.
------------------------------------
-------------------------------
End of Run after 0.075 Seconds.
-------------------------------
Logged
dlparkhurst
Top Contributor
Posts: 2928
Re: Difference between entry as mg/kgw and mg/Kgs
«
Reply #1 on:
March 10, 2020, 05:15:00 AM »
To convert from mg/kgw to mol/kgw requires only the gram formula weights. Your use of NaHCO3 for everything is a bit odd, but the number of moles of each element/alkalinity is well defined.
To convert from mg/kgs to mol/kgw is more complicated. You have to determine the mass of water in the solution. PHREEQC attempts to do this by subtracting an estimate of the mass of solutes in a kilogram of solution to arrive at the mass of water. The choice of gram formula weight determines the mass of solutes that is estimated. In your case, you are assuming the mass of C and Na in solution are each determined by the gram formula weight of NaHCO3. So, if there is one mole of Na in solution and one mole of HCO3, and the gram formula weight of NaHCO3 is 84, the mass of solutes is calculated to be 168 grams (84 for C and 84 for Na). Thus, the mass of water (1 - 0.168 kg) is underestimated (a better estimate is 1 - 0.084), and the concentrations of Na and C are overestimated.
In general, it can be difficult to estimate the mass of solute, especially if there can be species created by hydrolysis. A reaction like 2HCO3- + H2O = H2CO3 + CO3-2, changes the mass of water and the mass of solutes.
Logged
Print
Pages: [
1
]
Go Up
« previous
next »
PhreeqcUsers Discussion Forum
»
Beginners
»
PHREEQC basics
»
Difference between entry as mg/kgw and mg/Kgs