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Author Topic: Difference between entry as mg/kgw and mg/Kgs  (Read 1137 times)

ronald.bean@suez.com

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  • Posts: 1
Difference between entry as mg/kgw and mg/Kgs
« on: March 10, 2020, 12:19:03 AM »
I am using phreeqcCom  from an excel spreadsheet  to calculate the pH and scaling indexes.  when i calculate the solutions as mg/Kgw i get the correct solution.  However when i enter the same solution expressed as mg/KgS or ppm there is a totally different solution that is created.  To illustrate this point i did an extreme case of 15% solution of NaHCO3 with 85% water

 This can be expressed as 150,000 mg/kgs (or ppm) of NaHCO3 or 176,470 mg/Kgw


DATABASE C:\Program Files (x86)\USGS\Phreeqc Interactive 3.6.2-15100\database\wateq4f.dat
SOLUTION 1
    temp      25
    pH        7
    pe        4
    redox     pe
    units     mg/kgw
    density   1
    Alkalinity 176470.5882 as NaHCO3
    C(4)      176470.5882 as NaHCO3
    Mg        0
    Na        176470.5882 as NaHCO3
    S(6)      0
    -water    1 # kg
END

SOLUTION 1
    temp      25
    pH        7
    pe        4
    redox     pe
    units     mg/kgs
    density   1
    Alkalinity 150000 as NaHCO3
    C(4)      150000 as NaHCO3
    Mg        0
    Na        150000 as NaHCO3
    S(6)      0
    -water    1 # kg

Why do i get two different solutions.
  Input file: C:\Users\xl5552\Documents\__NewPhreeqcExcel\database\test15perNaHCO3rv1.pqi
  Output file: C:\Users\xl5552\Documents\__NewPhreeqcExcel\database\test15perNaHCO3rv1.pqo
Database file: C:\Program Files (x86)\USGS\Phreeqc Interactive 3.6.2-15100\database\wateq4f.dat

------------------
Reading data base.
------------------

   SOLUTION_MASTER_SPECIES
   SOLUTION_SPECIES
   PHASES
   EXCHANGE_MASTER_SPECIES
   EXCHANGE_SPECIES
   SURFACE_MASTER_SPECIES
   SURFACE_SPECIES
   RATES
   END
------------------------------------
Reading input data for simulation 1.
------------------------------------

   DATABASE C:\Program Files (x86)\USGS\Phreeqc Interactive 3.6.2-15100\database\wateq4f.dat
   SOLUTION 1
       temp      25
       pH        7
       pe        4
       redox     pe
       units     mg/kgw
       density   1
       Alkalinity 176470.5882 as NaHCO3
       C(4)      176470.5882 as NaHCO3
       Mg        0
       Na        176470.5882 as NaHCO3
       S(6)      0
       water    1 # kg
   END
-------------------------------------------
Beginning of initial solution calculations.
-------------------------------------------

Initial solution 1.   


pH will be adjusted to obtain desired alkalinity.

-----------------------------Solution composition------------------------------

   Elements           Molality       Moles

   Alkalinity        2.101e+00   2.101e+00
   C(4)              2.101e+00   2.101e+00
   Na                2.101e+00   2.101e+00

----------------------------Description of solution----------------------------

                                       pH  =   7.464      Adjust alkalinity
                                       pe  =   4.000   
                        Activity of water  =   0.937
                 Ionic strength (mol/kgw)  =   1.607e+00
                       Mass of water (kg)  =   1.000e+00
                       Total CO2 (mol/kg)  =   2.101e+00
                         Temperature (°C)  =  25.00
                  Electrical balance (eq)  =  -2.098e-14
 Percent error, 100*(Cat-|An|)/(Cat+|An|)  =  -0.00
                               Iterations  =   7
                                  Total H  = 1.130024e+02
                                  Total O  = 6.175275e+01

----------------------------Distribution of species----------------------------

                                               Log       Log       Log    mole V
   Species          Molality    Activity  Molality  Activity     Gamma   cm³/mol

   OH-             5.000e-07   2.728e-07    -6.301    -6.564    -0.263     (0) 
   H+              4.705e-08   3.439e-08    -7.327    -7.464    -0.136      0.00
   H2O             5.551e+01   9.371e-01     1.744    -0.028     0.000     18.07
C(4)          2.101e+00
   HCO3-           1.535e+00   9.707e-01     0.186    -0.013    -0.199     (0) 
   NaHCO3          4.551e-01   6.588e-01    -0.342    -0.181     0.161     (0) 
   CO2             5.532e-02   8.009e-02    -1.257    -1.096     0.161     (0) 
   NaCO3-          4.704e-02   2.975e-02    -1.328    -1.527    -0.199     (0) 
   CO3-2           8.277e-03   1.324e-03    -2.082    -2.878    -0.796     (0) 
H(0)          1.157e-26
   H2              5.783e-27   8.372e-27   -26.238   -26.077     0.161     (0) 
Na            2.101e+00
   Na+             1.599e+00   1.207e+00     0.204     0.082    -0.122     (0) 
   NaHCO3          4.551e-01   6.588e-01    -0.342    -0.181     0.161     (0) 
   NaCO3-          4.704e-02   2.975e-02    -1.328    -1.527    -0.199     (0) 
O(0)          0.000e+00
   O2              0.000e+00   0.000e+00   -40.443   -40.282     0.161     (0) 

------------------------------Saturation indices-------------------------------

  Phase               SI** log IAP   log K(298 K,   1 atm)

  CO2(g)            0.37     -1.10   -1.47  CO2
  H2(g)           -22.93    -26.08   -3.15  H2
  H2O(g)           -1.54     -0.03    1.51  H2O
  Nahcolite         0.62      0.07   -0.55  NaHCO3
  Natron           -1.69     -3.00   -1.31  Na2CO3:10H2O
  O2(g)           -37.39    -40.28   -2.89  O2
  Thermonatrite    -2.87     -2.74    0.13  Na2CO3:H2O
  Trona            -1.91     -2.70   -0.80  NaHCO3:Na2CO3:2H2O

**For a gas, SI = log10(fugacity). Fugacity = pressure * phi / 1 atm.
  For ideal gases, phi = 1.

------------------
End of simulation.
------------------

------------------------------------
Reading input data for simulation 2.
------------------------------------

   SOLUTION 1
       temp      25
       pH        7
       pe        4
       redox     pe
       units     mg/kgs
       density   1
       Alkalinity 150000 as NaHCO3
       C(4)      150000 as NaHCO3
       Mg        0
       Na        150000 as NaHCO3
       S(6)      0
       water    1 # kg
-------------------------------------------
Beginning of initial solution calculations.
-------------------------------------------

Initial solution 1.   


pH will be adjusted to obtain desired alkalinity.

-----------------------------Solution composition------------------------------

   Elements           Molality       Moles

   Alkalinity        3.246e+00   3.246e+00
   C(4)              3.246e+00   3.246e+00
   Na                3.246e+00   3.246e+00

----------------------------Description of solution----------------------------

                                       pH  =   7.342      Adjust alkalinity
                                       pe  =   4.000   
                        Activity of water  =   0.906
                 Ionic strength (mol/kgw)  =   2.321e+00
                       Mass of water (kg)  =   1.000e+00
                       Total CO2 (mol/kg)  =   3.246e+00
                         Temperature (°C)  =  25.00
                  Electrical balance (eq)  =  -4.004e-10
 Percent error, 100*(Cat-|An|)/(Cat+|An|)  =  -0.00
                               Iterations  =   6
                                  Total H  = 1.140781e+02
                                  Total O  = 6.515510e+01

----------------------------Distribution of species----------------------------

                                               Log       Log       Log    mole V
   Species          Molality    Activity  Molality  Activity     Gamma   cm³/mol

   OH-             3.815e-07   1.991e-07    -6.419    -6.701    -0.282     (0) 
   H+              6.302e-08   4.553e-08    -7.201    -7.342    -0.141      0.00
   H2O             5.551e+01   9.055e-01     1.744    -0.043     0.000     18.07
C(4)          3.246e+00
   HCO3-           2.211e+00   1.364e+00     0.345     0.135    -0.210     (0) 
   NaHCO3          8.545e-01   1.458e+00    -0.068     0.164     0.232     (0) 
   CO2             9.035e-02   1.542e-01    -1.044    -0.812     0.232     (0) 
   NaCO3-          8.064e-02   4.974e-02    -1.093    -1.303    -0.210     (0) 
   CO3-2           9.707e-03   1.405e-03    -2.013    -2.852    -0.839     (0) 
H(0)          1.720e-26
   H2              8.600e-27   1.467e-26   -26.066   -25.833     0.232     (0) 
Na            3.246e+00
   Na+             2.311e+00   1.901e+00     0.364     0.279    -0.085     (0) 
   NaHCO3          8.545e-01   1.458e+00    -0.068     0.164     0.232     (0) 
   NaCO3-          8.064e-02   4.974e-02    -1.093    -1.303    -0.210     (0) 
O(0)          0.000e+00
   O2              0.000e+00   0.000e+00   -41.031   -40.799     0.232     (0) 

------------------------------Saturation indices-------------------------------

  Phase               SI** log IAP   log K(298 K,   1 atm)

  CO2(g)            0.66     -0.81   -1.47  CO2
  H2(g)           -22.68    -25.83   -3.15  H2
  H2O(g)           -1.55     -0.04    1.51  H2O
  Nahcolite         0.96      0.41   -0.55  NaHCO3
  Natron           -1.41     -2.73   -1.31  Na2CO3:10H2O
  O2(g)           -37.91    -40.80   -2.89  O2
  Thermonatrite    -2.46     -2.34    0.13  Na2CO3:H2O
  Trona            -1.17     -1.97   -0.80  NaHCO3:Na2CO3:2H2O

**For a gas, SI = log10(fugacity). Fugacity = pressure * phi / 1 atm.
  For ideal gases, phi = 1.

------------------
End of simulation.
------------------

------------------------------------
Reading input data for simulation 3.
------------------------------------

-------------------------------
End of Run after 0.075 Seconds.
-------------------------------

Logged

dlparkhurst

  • Top Contributor
  • Posts: 2736
Re: Difference between entry as mg/kgw and mg/Kgs
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2020, 05:15:00 AM »
To convert from mg/kgw to mol/kgw requires only the gram formula weights. Your use of NaHCO3 for everything is a bit odd, but the number of moles of each element/alkalinity is well defined.

To convert from mg/kgs to mol/kgw is more complicated. You have to determine the mass of water in the solution. PHREEQC attempts to do this by subtracting an estimate of the mass of solutes in a kilogram of solution to arrive at the mass of water. The choice of gram formula weight determines the mass of solutes that is estimated. In your case, you are assuming the mass of C and Na in solution are each determined by the gram formula weight of NaHCO3. So, if there is one mole of Na in solution and one mole of HCO3, and the gram formula weight of NaHCO3 is 84, the mass of solutes is calculated to be 168 grams (84 for C and 84 for Na). Thus, the mass of water (1 - 0.168 kg) is underestimated (a better estimate is 1 - 0.084), and the concentrations of Na and C are overestimated.

In general, it can be difficult to estimate the mass of solute, especially if there can be species created by hydrolysis.  A reaction like 2HCO3- + H2O = H2CO3 + CO3-2, changes the mass of water and the mass of solutes. 
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